During the summer, with images from the New York Asian Film Festival still seared into my brain, I hoped to learn more about one of the festival's less heralded yet highly impressionable films BLOODY FIGHT IN IRON ROCK VALLEY. Shot on a shoestring budget, it's a modern take on the classic Western with a main protagonist driven by revenge (reviewed here). I sought out an interview with the South Korean film's newcomer director JI Ha-Jean. He graciously answered my questions via email, giving thorough insight into his vision and the trials of making a low budget action film.
Q: I have come across many independent films from South Korea that are dramas or horror films, but not so many action. Bloody Fight In Iron Rock Valley is a very skillfully made action film. What drew you to making a feature in this genre?
JI Ha-Jean: Personally I love Western and Crime movies. I especially like the directors Sergio Leone and Jean-Pierre Melville, so I made my film with the idea of learning and practicing their cinematographic heritages in mind.
I decided to make this film after reading the book ‘Rebel without a Crew: Or How a 23-Year-Old Filmmaker With $7,000 Became a Hollywood Player’ by Robert Rodriguez. It’s like the bible of making action films with a micro budget. The reason I chose the Western genre especially is that it suits low budget filmmaking. Following the simple rule, which is ‘a mysterious man visits an isolated village and wipes out all the bad people,’ and shooting well crafted minimal action scenes, I expected the film to come out great even though it was made on a very low budget.
Q: Considering the minimal budget you had to shoot on, were there concessions or improvisations to your plans that you knew you would have to make before shooting started?
JH: The costumes were the hardest part. The extra pieces of clothing are very important for making this kind of movie, in which 17 people die, and most characters get injured or are intensely chased. However, we didn’t have a big enough budget for all the costumes, so most of the characters wore only one outfit until the end of shooting. So I tried to shoot the film in sequential order, but it was difficult. You might have noticed that, repeatedly, characters’ clothes are dirty and later changed to clean; torn and later they look like new. Also, I had to lower my expectations for the blood explosion scenes. There was only one chance, so even though I was not fully satisfied with it, I had to say OK.
At last, we had to finish the shooting within 25 days, so we were always in a rush. We had to revise lots of scenes in order to shoot the action sequences. Especially for the scene where the character ‘AX’ is killed, it was a very complicated scene using wire action, but we finished it within 3 hours. We had to give up lots of details that were in the original plan.
However, with this restriction, the making of the film had a more frenetic vibe, so I think it is not too bad.
Q: I’ve read that it took something like 2 months to shoot the movie -- incredibly fast! How did you make that happen?
JH: I will correct you here; it took just 1 month! It was very important for the staff and actors to get along with each other well in order to finish the film in such a short period. The shooting was done using hand-held filming techniques without any lights. We were always on stand-by. 100% of the sound was done in post synchronization. Actors were very well aware of each roll’s characteristics.
There was different theme music for each character, which we made before the shooting. We used it while shooting and it was very helpful for the actors to keep their emotions on the spot.
Also we had very few members on the staff. This was also helped to make things go fast. It’s also written about in Rodriguez’s book. The staff was made up of 7 people on site. We were always shorthanded, but they were professionals in their fields, which accelerated the process. Also, we knew very well know what we were going to do. We pursued what we could, and quickly decided to give up what was impossible at that moment.
Q: The time and place that the movie is set does not seem clearly defined. It appears like it could be in the present, but not shown in exact detail. Is it meant to be open to interpretation? Did you have a particular time and place in mind?
JH: There is a particular time in the movie. The main character has been released from prison 12 years after 1998, so the background is in 2010.
However, in general I wanted the time to be not defined. In the films of Kurosawa Kiyoshi or Sergio Leone, the era is not clearly defined. So the story in their films has a universal context beyond the particular era.
Korea’s development has been very fast and highly compressed within the last 60 years after the Korean War. There has always been huge demolition and reconstruction in our history, so the tragic story inside ‘Bloody Fight in Iron-Rock Valley’ is quite common in our society. If the background of this movie was not the mining village in Gangwon province, it would have been difficult to blur the time. Because Korea is changing so fast, the old things are vanishing very quickly. However, the mining village of Gangwon province has stayed the same over decades. If we say it is the 1970s, people can still believe it. You could say another main character of this film is ‘space’, so it was very important to establish the atmosphere of the place.
Q: There is a very interesting use of space, for instance, the gang’s base. It seems like it was created using old machinery, other unusual props. How did you give the space the look you wanted?
JH: We didn’t have enough time or budget for designing the setting more. We had to use the location as it was, so we made a big effort while location hunting. The gang’s base is also shot at the location exactly as we found it. There are many abandoned buildings in Gangwon province. So we believed we would be able to find a great spot after checking places carefully.
After confirming the location, we revised the scenario to be suitable for it. I brought pictures of the places home and adapted the scenario and the characters’ moves to the place’s atmosphere.
Q: Several of the actors in the movie, I’m thinking particularly of LEE Moo-Saeng, YUN Sang-Wha, and CHOI Je-un have a very bold/striking look. How did you go about casting and selecting them for the role? Did they agree to work on the movie right away.
JH: I was very lucky with the casting. There are many great actors in the films of Sergio Leone, Howard Hawks and Sam Peckinpah. In their movies, the actor’s face is the characters itself. I especially like Walter Brennan, Charles Bronson, and Warren Oates.
For the ideas, I tried to find the answers within the actors’ faces. For instance, LEE Moo-saeng, his face is very bold, has a striking appearance and his eyes express quite a gloomy feeling. When I shot extreme close-ups of his eyes, I could see a sad man with a big hurt memory. However, he also looks very strong and restrained.
YUN Sang-hwa looks very violent, but also exhausted from the wrinkles on his face. In the movie, there is only one time his hat is taken off, and that is where he looks the shabbiest. Also, he shows different aspects of his look in the flashback scenes.
CHOI Je-un is a sassy girl working in the gambling house. But she is also a sweet girl, going to her father’s temple every day. Ms. CHOI has a proper look in that aspect. Also she knows how to handle guns very well.
The western genre is very rare in Korean cinema, so most of the actors were intrigued by that. I also persuaded them with my convictions to make a great western film. It helped them to get on board the project.
Q: The movie is notable for action sequences and use of different weapons (a torch, nail gun, shotgun, etc.) Were there any particular influences on directing the action/violence in the movie? Any interesting stories/challenges about doing scenes with that type of equipment?
JH: There are particular muggers who carry out orders of others in Korea. They use those kinds of tools to control people. One day, there was an event that influenced the story of this movie: a mugger blasted fire into a woman’s mouth and damaged her throat.
Korea strictly prohibits guns. This movie is a western, but if the characters were fighting with guns, it would turn into a 100% fantasy movie. No possibility at all. I wanted to have some plausibility in the film, so I decided to work with the tools that these muggers usually use.
I shot double the number of nail-gun scenes that end up appearing in the film. But it made the main character seem too violent, so I deleted half of them.
The last fight between Chul-ki and Ghost Face (Gyee-myeon) is the most important part of the film, so I tried to make the rest of action scenes less violent.
Also, when Chul-ki killed the AX, the fact that he is killed by the amulet which he was always attached to was more important than the manner of killing itself.
I incorporated the back stories into every action scene. Making the audience think of Chul-ki’s sadness was more important than the action itself.
We used a real ax in the film. We couldn’t make the fake ax, so we used a real one, which is very heavy and sharp.
When we shot the scene in which AX tries to kill Chul-ki lying down on the ground using an ax, it could have been a major accident. Mr. LEE refused to shoot the scene anymore because it was too dangerous. He felt threatened.
So the action choreographer make-up director and Mr. LEE tried to make a fake ax midway through shooting. It was made of PVC pipes and Styrofoam, but it looked really good, just like a real one. It looked so real that I was so surprised and felt guilty for the actors because I couldn’t think of making one at the beginning.
As a result, we could make a strong scene using that model. Thanks to their passion and affection for the film, we could get great results.
Q: The movie tells a very straightforward revenge story, but you also incorporated issues of corruption and greed into it - a developer trying to force people out of their land to build something more profitable. How did you decide to make this part of the story? Was it an issue of particular importance to you?
JH: I think I already gave you the answer to this above. Korea has developed very rapidly, so people these days are living in more prosperous and convenient times. On the other hand, people in this society just keep going without consideration for others who are isolated and ignored.
This movie is fictional, but it also points out some of the problems in this society.
Just 4 years ago, 6 laborers were burned to death during a fight with policemen in Seoul. The labors wanted to keep living in their area, so they fought with the policemen who tried to remove them. However, it caused too much harm. This was a very violent event, but a new building was constructed on the spot where it happened. And people seemed to have forgotten the event very fast.
Gangwon province has such a beautiful landscape and great natural resources underground, so similar things easily happen. The people who have lived there are kicked out, and developing facilities are occupying those places.
I started developing this film with the idea that among these many victims, there might be a personal story about one individual who tries to get revenge. This movie is for entertainment, of course, but I thought that it could gain the sympathy of the audience as long as it is based in reality.
Also, it addresses the eternal theme of the ‘revisionist western’.
Q: The ending has a somewhat serial-like feeling to it? Do you have interest in developing a sequel? If not, what type of project are you interested in taking on next?
JH: You’ve got the idea correctly, but I don’t have a plan for a sequel. When the main character ‘Chul-ki’ disappeared at the end, I hoped he wouldn’t get into any more trouble afterwards.
However, I have a plan for a bigger western movie in the future. The time of the film would be further in the past. The background would be the era when the train railroad was constructed for the first time in Korea. The ‘Mr. No Name’ will appear again and he will fight with a harsher enemy.
The project I am currently working on is a horror film. I will bring forth a great horror film with lots of blood, mixed with action and adventure. Please don’t miss it!
If you’ve ever read a review of a Korean film by me or anyone else, there is a good chance social commentary works its way into the picture somehow. Rarely does an action or drama come along that doesn’t incorporate something critical to say about the institutions in place or the way people treat one another. Perhaps this is why it has a voice commanding so much attention among film enthusiasts worldwide. Yet rare is the film that so completely serves as a statement of social commentary as The King of Pigs. The first feature film by Yeun Sang-Ho, The King of Pigs is an animated tale that rips the lid off of a system of abuse reportedly common in South Korea’s jr. high schools.
The King of Pigs is a thoroughly independent production. It comes after only directing animated shorts prior to it and according to Yeun in an interview I did with him, he started working on it before receiving any funding, only later receiving a 100,000 dollar grant from a company that invests in independent films. Most of those involved in the film’s production, including the voice actors, are from among the directors friends. He describes how he worked with Yang Ik-June and Kim Kkobi (familiar to many from their work together on the film Breathless) because he “had talked to them a lot about this film beforehand....It was more of a collaboration for fun rather than calling it casting.”
It begins in an almost impossibly bleak place: a woman lies dead, strangled, as a distraught man trembles in a shower. The bespectacled man, calmer now, receives a call from an investigator with the contact information of a former classmate whom he quickly makes arrangements to meet. That man is Jong-Suk, a freelance writer stuck in a clearly unfulfilling assignment. Distrustful, or just filled with pent up rage, he lashes out physically against his live-in companion after she returns home late without returning his phone calls. As low and damaged a state the two former school friends find each other in, signs point to an even darker past, which comes up through episodes they recount in one particularly tragic jr. high school year. It offers insight into the roads that may have led them to these malcontent grown up lives, and is the first of many allusions to continuous cycles of violence and despair.
Flashbacks show an all boy school as a frightening place for many, who are subject to the whim of a few. Classroom ‘managers’ taunt and order around the more meek students in the class, giving approval to certain acts of bullying while menacing others for their lack of seriousness in their studies. They do this under the watchful eye of an upperclassman who beats them should they fail to maintain a positive environment in the classroom,and he in turn reports to an older student who is something of a leader in the school government. This hierarchy of overreaching control is not made up of embittered underachievers or those who are victims of abuse themselves. Rather, these members of the school community appear to be economically advantaged. As a result, they also experience academic success making for a reinforced achievement for some while for the majority, failure perpetuates itself. An incensing scene finds the class monitors tormenting a talented boy to the point that he relinquishes a venerable spot in a writing competition to one that is accustomed to receiving every accolade. adults are eerily absent from the picture or at best very slight in their influence.
Jong-Suk perceives these different types as dogs and pigs. The dogs growl menacingly and control what goes on while throwing scraps to the pigs who can only hope to have occasional kindesses bestowed upon them instead of the usual abuse. As if in answer to the state of fear these students live in, another crucial character, Chul, appears.
Chul’s homelife is the most unstable and perhaps as a result he is reckless enough to defy the bullies. While another key figure, Chan-young (the same whose opportunity to enter a writing contest was dashed) tries to escape the fate of the pigs by putting his head down and trying to outlast the abuses of the class managers, Chul matches violence with even worse aggression. His message is not that of taking a higher road, but rather one of becoming a bigger beast than those who would behave monstrously. Despite his scary demeanor, he represents a fighting resistance against those in power to Jong-Suk and Kyung-Min. And yet, his propensity for greater violence brings adult authority down on him and leads to confrontation with the highest level of students running the show. The only act left for him to conceive of that could make a difference for the three is so desperate and fatal an idea, it seems destined to fall into ruin.
Meanwhile, the causes for such disparity between students are shown to extend beyond the confines of the classroom. In the young Jong-suk’s family home, his sister throws tantrums about her lack of up to date goods that others around her enjoyed. She even turns to theft to compensate her frustrations, which are amplified by a status-obsessed society. Students speak of the long stints of time they go through without being able to afford to eat meat. In a poignant exchange, Kyung-Min finds his father, an only relatively prosperous owner of a karaoke bar and the elicit prostitution that takes place there, violently casting out Chul’s mother, whose impoverished state forces her to take on this undesirable work. Chul is there too, ready to strike out to defend his mother, but the sight of Kyung-min causes him to leave in despondency. It shows how even their bond of solidarity in class is tainted by the venomous relationships that have long been poisoned by want and squalor.
While animation brings to mind fantasy, there are strikingly realistic aspects of this story. Instances of bullying, like when those that wield influence question an individual’s sexuality threateningly for failing to abide established fashion codes, will seem familiar to anyone who’s experienced or been around others who have experienced middle school taunts. Also resonating a recognizable truth is the way bullies conspire to administer sly cruelties until the put upon individual finally lashes out in more serious violence, only then bringing the attention of adult authorities to come down on the one who had been victimized. Perhaps this great realism owes to the fact that, according to Yeun in our interview, “individual episodes in the film are based on (his) experiences” although “structure wise the (story) is pretty much fictional.”
Animation then serves to drive some of the cruel aspects of the story home vibrantly, if not exactly entertainingly. There are fantastical transformation sequences: humans transform into dogs and swines to represent their status. Chul, a boy from whom violence is inseparable from existence, warps into pitch black monstrous forms to show his increasingly hate-filled state of mind. Sequences of a wild eyed cackling feline (perhaps meant to be viewed as the spirit of a cat that was killed in a ritual of brutality) and corpses of deceased family members taunt Jong-Suk, showing the tortured states of mind they are in over their powerlessness in the face of more well-off bullies.
The look of animation also suits the fable-ish nature of the story with its animal-based allegory on haves and have-nots. In fact Yeun claims being a fan of all types of animation including Disney. Chul’s sudden appearance and ability to vanquish the villainous tormentors in the class makes him a mythic figure. Yet, fantasy comes crashing into depressing reality. His heroism comes from a dark place, one brought about by earthly hardships of family tragedy and economic plight. This along with the social politics of school life prove insurmountable.
As Jong-Suk and Kyung-Min continue to recall their harrowing younger days, it becomes clear they are skirting around something. A tragedy with jolting and fearsome connotations will come to light, revealing opens wounds that have never been healed.
The movie may be considerably remarkable movie fans in the West where relatively few South Korean films on this subject have surfaced. In fact they are out there. Yeun mentioned over movies that take on the subject of school bullying, such as Our Twisted Hero. His film stands out, however, as Yeun “didn’t want to fall into that kind of convention, but instead look at (the issue) from a different perspective.”
The lack of simplicity, of an easy to follow struggle between clearly defined hero and villains, helps make it a powerful vision. It also reflects Yeun’s views on the real-life problem. When asked, for instance, about the lack of adult presence, he answered: “In Korea parents really do work a lot. They don’t have much time to spend with kids. I think it’s more of the Society’s problem, not the parents’ responsibility but the society that drives parents away from the kids and into work.”
In fact the film often straddles a line between genre film and more unconventional project. Setting the film’s dark tones from the outset is an ominous-sounding score. Yeun mentioned how he asked the music director for “the soundtrack to be in genre convention. And also (being) a big fan of the soundtrack of Twin Peaks by David Lynch wanted something similar to that.”
While offering little in the way of solutions or hope, The King of Pigs is a piercing beacon shining light on a situation that should be looked upon rather than left to fester in the darkness.
I interviewed Jae-Ho Change and Tara Autovino, directors of the spirited documentary ULTIMATE CHRISTIAN WRESTLING for Unseen Films. I edited down quite a bit. Theirs is a truly fascinating story, though, and I feel all the details of the conversation illuminate the challenges of making the film, the unique nature of UCW, and a way of life unfamiliar to many. What follows below is a more complete transcript of the interview.
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MondoCurry: How did you discover UCW?
Jae-Ho: It was on the radio. I heard it one morning. During the sports section they were talking what happened that night, and then at the very end, as a joke they mentioned, ‘oh also there is this group that wrestles for Jesus.’ I thought that was a pretty bizarre concept. At that time we were both going to grad school. We worked on projects together and we had similar interests. So I ran it by Tara and she did some more research, found a couple of places, what was it, South Carolina….?
Tara: There’s one in North Carolina, one in Texas, and one in Georgia that we ended up following. I think we wanted to follow them for a couple of reasons. They weren’t too slick but they weren’t amateurs. They were definitely pro wrestlers. That was a nice place to be and then also when I called Rob who is the founder of UCW, he was so friendly and he was like ‘sure come on down’ and he had no idea who we were. We just told him we were grad students at NYU and interested in finding out more. He invited us down there and we went and we ended up spending 3 years of our lives off and on, shooting.
MC: What got you most interested in the subject? Have either of you ever been fans of wrestling or was it the religious aspect of what they were doing?
Jae-Ho: It was just this bizarre concept. We were both into that sort of subculture. That was kind of our initial attraction. Let’s try to capture this. Then after spending 3 years with them it became something different.
MC: Was it your first time spending a significant amount of time in the South?
Jae-Ho: First time for me.
Tara: Half my mother’s family is from the South so I spent a fair amount of time in Georgia when I was a kid but the South is very different now than how it was.
MC: The title of the film suggests something that could be very outlandish but the story you presented is pretty subdued one. Did your plan of approaching the subject change along the way?
Jae-Ho: We as filmmakers felt that it’s such a shallow film if you just focus on the bizarre concept, and you can’t really make a feature film just based on that. We wanted to make a film that people can relate to...Or even people like us coming from the metropolitan area having a preconceived notion of who these people are … And then when we got to know them we changed our perspective on who they are. We felt that as responsible filmmakers, that is the kind of film we want to make. It’s too easy to make fun of these people. It becomes like a reality show. We tried to present our experience of realizing wow, these people are not who we think they are. Let’s try to create a film where people have these expectations and then they would change their perspective. It’s almost like our personal journey of how we experienced hanging out with them for 3 years. It’s what we wanted to show on the big screen.
Tara: That’s pretty much why we kept the title of the film the way we kept it: Because when you hear that title, you have all sorts of notions of what kind of film that could be. Most of them are probably over the top or negative, and when we reveal the world slowly, it’s exactly how we experienced it. So there’s that title and the shows and then it starts getting into the details of how much we are actually like them.
Jae-Ho: People wanted us to change the title because they were like ‘we expected one thing and it wasn’t about that. Maybe call it Ultimate Christian Wrestlers…’ But we felt like the title sort of serves the same function as the film, as in people have these expectations of what it is going to be and then it’s something else.
Tara: And it’s very symbolic of people judging other people based on superficial observations, what they look like, where they’re from, how they sound, the title of something…It’s a very don’t judge a book by its cover sort of thing. I can judge people based on what they look like and this was very much a practice of learning to find the similarities between us and them. Instead of it being an us and them thing, it’s about what we have in common.
MC: Do you have any religious experiences or beliefs that you were reminded of? Were any of them challenged by what you experienced when making the film?
Tara: I think one of the strengths of working on this project together is that we both come from very different religious backgrounds, both Christian based but very different. I had a very negative experience growing up and was mainly dismissive as a teenager. I wanted to study philosophy and I was really anti-religion when I was in my early 20’s.
Jae-Ho: For me, growing up being Korean I was pretty much born into Christianity. I had a good experience growing up being Christian. It was not a choice so it was a natural thing for me to go to Church on Sundays with my family. When I was in college, I felt like I could make a choice now if I want to go or believe these things. So it was a good thing when we were filming that we had these opposite points of view. That helped to balance the context of what we have in the film.
MC: When you saw the live events did anything strike you as offensive or go against your sensibilities on Christianity?
Jae Ho: In the beginning it was really bizarre because of the fact that it’s a very violent sport and with Christianity, you don’t think of that. Once I got over that, it was pretty inspiring. I think they do a really smart thing because when you watch these wrestling shows, you get really revved up when you’re watching, and that continues with the whole religious aspect of it. And they use the people’s emotions to channel that into Christianity and try to convert people. I can see why people get so into it because they’re really passionate about wrestling in the South and then also Christianity and just combining those two and taking advantage of those emotions people are feeling at a wrestling show…I can see the direction that they’re going. And Rob is such a cult of personality and very convincing when he talks. To me it was very inspiring in a way.
MC: The film tells some very personal stories. I wondered if there was any one wrestler or one of the families in the film that you felt particularly invested in emotionally?
Tara: We followed around a lot of wrestlers, not just the three that ended up in the film. I think the ones in the film are the ones that touched us the most, particularly Billy Jack, the one with the son Cody. And Justin and his brother… Seeing that struggle, it was hard to have a relationship with them because we had friendships with all of these people. Watching them go through what they go through and not being able to do anything about it and just sort of sitting there with their pain…I’m grateful for the experience, that they let us in for that, but those are why those stories ended up making the film in the end.
MC: Both Billy Jack and Justin always appear very positive in dealing with their struggles. Did they always have such a strong optimism when you were around them?
Tara: Throughout the film they did. They attribute it to their faith and I attribute it to their faith. No matter what we agree or disagree on in terms of belief systems, they have something that gets them up in the morning and motivates them to make positive changes in their lives and for other people. All they want to do is help other people and so you can’t really judge people if they’re trying to do good. Who am I to say what’s right or what’s wrong. It’s really moving to me when people are able to go through hardship and have faith that it’s going to change and that it’s going to get better. It’s really inspiring.
Jae-Ho: Going back to your previous question, because I used to live in Korea, and then in high school I came here and moved in with my aunt, I could relate to what Justin was going through...Living with another family and you kind of have to watch your behavior, tiptoe around because they’re doing you a favor. Also what I’d like to talk about is the theme of what I have discovered through the film is people who take chances to better their lives, which is something we all strive to do. For me that is the biggest fear of trying something out: Watching it fail. For them to do that is very inspirational to me. That for me was the personal journey I went through when I watch the film. I’m exorcising my demons through them as they’re taking these chances.
Tara: And it’s not like these chances all turned out so great. It’s not like they necessarily knew where they were going to end up by this point in the film. Justin had different or higher hopes. They all had higher hopes. I think Jae-Ho’s pointing to the most important thing, which is that they took the chance, that they’re trying and they’ll continue to try. Dreams don’t always look the way you think they’re going to when you arrive at them. Once you achieve them, usually they don’t feel the way you think they’re going to feel.
Jae-Ho: Like you said, because they’re religious they can put a positive spin on these situations.
Tara: Right, like Rob when he says ‘I guess this is not what we’re supposed to be doing anymore.’ That’s such a great way to look at things instead of wallowing in the negative. He’s just living his life to the fullest, which is inspiring.
MC: Were there aspects of their personal stories that you wanted to show more of but were, for whatever reason, prevented from doing?
Tara: That’s hard to answer because, since this was a documentary, we don’t really know what we’re following when we’re following it. In the end we look at all this footage and it is what it is. That’s just how life went. And I could probably think of things where it’s like “wouldn’t it be cool if this happened,” but I think we did a pretty good job. There’s plenty of other stuff we chose to omit based on privacy out of respect for the wrestlers, so I think what we have I’m pretty satisfied with.
Jae-Ho: Yeah some stuff we were like, it’s great, and it’s controversial and people are gonna like it or be interested in it, but we didn’t want to exploit these characters. I don’t think that’s the kind of film we want to make.
Tara: There are certain things that, as documentary filmmakers following people’s very personal moments, we feel like we’re crossing a boundary. Even though that boundary has been signed away in writing, it’s our personal belief that everyone deserves the right to privacy…Even if they are participating in a documentary.
Jae-Ho: We didn’t want to sensationalize some of that stuff. It’s the easy way to go if you go that way but we chose not to.
Tara: and it’s definitely the harder way to go. Which we’re very happy with, but it’s a very subtle film. It’s kind of intentionally subtle.
MC: You met and filmed a lot of different wrestlers who probably weren’t used to being in front of a camera. What were the various reactions to being filmed?
Jae-Ho: We knew that coming from NY, they were going to be very guarded because they’re doing such a bizarre thing. And they were in the beginning. But Tara and I knew it was going to be a process if you want to make a great film about these people’s lives. So we would go there, not always with a camera, and hang out with them, spend holidays with them, eat with them, and that’s how you slowly build the trust. That we knew going into this project. It was hard. There were moments where they didn’t owe us anything so they would completely not even call us back. So, we would have to wait around. We would have to convince them: Hey we’re doing this thing, please let us in to what you’re doing. There were struggles. We lucked out that they were into it and eventually felt natural in front of the camera.
Tara: That process took nine months of interacting with them and having the camera in front of them until they really started to let down their guard.
Jae-Ho: Thank God we had the wrestling to shoot because we were focusing on that in the beginning and then we had the behind the scenes stuff. And that’s a gradual process and they get used to that. And then we go ‘can we come to your home and shoot some of that?’ It’s kind of apparent in the film where we talk to Cody, when he talks about his mom.
Tara: When he’s sitting on Billy’s lap. They are so stiff.
Jae-Ho: That’s very early on.
Tara: But that’s great because it kind of follows…It does follow the structure of the film: The emotional progress of the story.
MC: The film makes it clear that the shows were all done for free and not for any kind of profit. How did they manage to fund things?
Jae-Ho: Was it donations? They had a concession stand…
Tara: There were donations. They had a concession stand. For a time they were getting some funding from various churches in the area who thought what they were doing was interesting so they got some support from that. But ultimately, that’s why they had to stop: Because financially, they couldn’t keep it together.
MC: We see them do some sophisticated professional wrestling techniques. How did they learn them?
Jae-Ho: They used to wrestle in independent leagues in Georgia down South. And, because of those experiences of drugs and a lot of alcohol behind the scenes…That’s what they got sick of and created this league where they could have a family friendly show, have wrestling and have Christianity. So they’ve been in the industry for a while.
MC: Over the course of three years, do you know how many of the live events you went to?
Jae-Ho: We were all over Georgia, then Alabama…ten...
MC: Was that all of the live events that they had during that time?
Jae-Ho: They had more. They had one every weekend.
Tara: We followed their shows and then, when some of them went on the indie circuit, we would follow that. If there was nothing going on some of them would go to the indie circuit.
Jae-Ho: Secular shows. That’s what surprised us because they would go to these shows that would take about 2 hours to drive to and they would be in this match for about ten minutes and that’s it. And they would still love doing it. They were really passionate about wrestling.
MC: Some of the sequences of things that happen around the matches, before and after, get shown pretty quickly. Some it is easy to place in a context but some if it seemed very confusing. Did you find that, watching the events from beginning to end, there was a clear narrative? Did you ask the guys to explain certain aspects of the shows they put on?
Jae-Ho: It was confusing for us too and I think that is the beauty of it. And that’s what we tried to portray in the film as well. We could’ve easily said, ‘hey could you explain to us what today’s theme is?’ but I think that’s the beauty of UCW and what we’re trying to portray is: it’s kind of confusing and it’s not a perfect show…
Tara: It’s not a perfect system, but they definitely got the passion.
Jae-Ho: Yeah, it’s about the passion.
MC: This is a question more for you, Jae-Ho. As you watch the film it seems like it’s not an ethnically diverse area you are shooting in. Did your being Korean American cause any guarded otherwise unusual reactions at first?
Jae-Ho: I think I would get more racial comments here than there. Because people are very polite there…Well, one kid called me ‘Jap’ there. But not like in an offensive way. I think that’s just what he had heard at home. But being a minority, it was OK. I feel like Asians are nonthreatening to the people, right? Asians as a race are like perceived as nonthreatening, docile people.
Tara: That’s the stereotype. But I would just say in the defense of the South, Atlanta is an extremely diverse city. I was shocked at how cosmopolitan it has become and how racially diverse it has become. So, at least flying into Atlanta I almost felt like it was more mixed down there than up here.
MC: How far out from Atlanta were you staying or were the wrestlers mostly based?
Tara: We were all over Georgia. I think the only area we didn’t cover was the Savannah area. But we were in Macon and Rome and way up in LJ in the mountains, Athens. We covered pretty much everywhere in Georgia, with the exception of the South East.
MC: Did you set some rules for yourselves, being away from the usual comforts of home? Did you want to force yourselves to stick certain parts of the experience out?
Tara: We spent the summer of 2007 there completely living out of extended stay hotels.
Jae: It was more budgetary reasons that forced us to do that. Remember we got that cabin in the mountains?
Tara: We got this cabin in the mountains which was a little bit too remote for us. We had to do things like…We had to get a gym membership because you don’t walk at all. You drive everywhere. Especially in the more suburban areas, it’s not set up for walking so we had to get exercise…
Jae-Ho: Because of the food you eat. All the iced tea.
Tara: Yeah, so we had to make some lifestyle adjustments while we were there. Although we were thoroughly enjoying the cuisine while we were there.
Jae-Ho: They don’t drink water there. It’s iced tea.
Tara: And it’s sweetened ice tea. So much sugar. The eating part was pretty shocking and the lack of mobility was kind of hard to adjust to.
MC: Have you kept in touch with the guys in the film and do you know what any of them are up to now?
Jae-Ho: On and off. Facebook helps. Cody is in high school. He’s still wrestling. Billy Jack retired and he became a nurse. He’s always changing his occupation. He studied to become a nurse and he became a nurse. Then he went back to wrestling. And now he’s into car racing. Justin is overseas a lot. He’s on a boat a lot because he’s in the Navy. Rob, I believe he’s still teaching. He’s a special ed teacher.
MC: Did having this experience affect your future plans? Do you feel like there is more to this story, or some theme from this story, you’d like to explore further or are you ready to close the chapter on Ultimate Christian Wrestling?
Tara: I’m ready to do something else and my tendency is always to go towards more rural areas and Christian related themes. But before I do that, I’m going to try and challenge myself with something else.
Jae-Ho: To me I like Asian American stories and this is more outside of what I usually do. I would never go down to Georgia and film in rural areas, but it was a great experience. But it’s been 7 years so it’s probably time to do something else.
MC: Did doing this film leave you wanting to do more documentary work?
Jae-Ho: This is our first feature and we’re both trained narrative fiction film makers. Since this is our first feature, we’re kind of perceived as documentary filmmakers. I realize it’s the same thing. You’re still telling stories. I like docs because writing is really painful for me and lonely. Documentaries are great because you go and you start shooting and you’re part of the environment. Like I said, you get to go to new places. I’d like to continue to do both…And it’s all about creating compassionate characters… and docs are great. It’s almost like you do research when you shoot docs. You get to go live in places and hang out with people that you don’t know and you get to see how they behave. And that all feeds into if you’re going to write for a character. Those experiences all help. I’m afraid to be pigeonholed as a documentary filmmaker but I want to pursue both.
MC: As far as topics for another documentary, do any jump to your mind?
Jae-Ho: There are so many. When I read the newspaper I like to save certain articles that seem like they will be great stories. The one I want…I don’t know if I have the guts to do it yet…is about the hazing in the army. I think there were two Korean Americans, or they were Asian American soldiers who got hazed, and ended up committing suicide. It happened twice. If they were not Asian Americans, would I have done it? Probably not. Something about a person being Asian American, being bullied, there is a kind of emotional attachment that I feel when I hear that story. So that is something I’m kind of toying with…If I am going to do something next for documentary.
A problem is it kind of happened already. All the press. I’d rather make films about things that are happening now. Cinema verite style instead of a lot of talking heads. And so that’s something I’m worried about too. And also the responsibility of portraying the story is a lot of responsibility when you make something like that. That’s something I need to conquer in a way, the fear of how it’s going to be perceived, how it might get criticized for being this way or that way. But all that kind of stuff is something that I really need to work out before I dive into something serious like this.
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Ultimate Christian Wrestling was screened at the 2012 Korean American Film Festival in NY. For more information visit KAFFNY.com
Me on twitter = @mondocurry
Q: I’ve read that it took something like 2 months to shoot the movie -- incredibly fast! How did you make that happen?
